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Topic Discussion I
Politics of Hard Choices
Political Transition and Economic Restructuring
Room 1
(13 of 20 pages)
Margaret de Boer: And you come from Bolivia.
Johnny Nogales: I come from Bolivia, yes. I want to share with you the experience of my country about a
multi-party system. We have more than 50 parties, but maybe 14 of them are competing in the election process. When
I hear some patrons here about many parties in a society, I have to share with you that in my country we are doing
good, I think, because many parties are from the -- about 12 or 14 years ago, no one party can have more than 20
percent, maybe a little bit more, but not much more, in the percentage of all the borders. Then they have to make
coalitions, they have to talk to each other, they have to agree on some very important points, and that's democracy.
I don't think democracy is to have one, two or three, or 100 parties, but to have the disposition to talk and deal
with the other people in the society. And we have at least, the four last governments in my country that they have
control for passing the laws and they have in the same way to -- I'll say economic democracy, also, freedom, economic
freedom. So it's not that bad to have many parties in the society, with the course of the time we'll say who is
going to draw what percent and who is going to get all the votes.
And about economic reform for educated people for democracy, I don't think there's a law -- a school and university
for democracy, I think we are learning democracy by living democracy.
And about economic reforms, in my country it was a very difficult situation in about 25,000 percent inflation,
maybe you cannot even imagine, what is 25,000 percent inflation, and maybe that makes our people to think that
it's time to change, and maybe in democracy we could do what we have done about economic reform. Thank you.
Margaret de Boer: Well, thank you, Mr. Nogales. Mr. Nogales, we could also go into the question that was
raised by Dr. Al-Sheri, whether you can have a full democracy with illiterate people, I think you all have to deal
with that problem.
Johnny Nogales: I didn't hear the question.
Margaret de Boer: Dr. Al-Sheri just said, and I'm repeating her words in my own words, she just said, is
it possible to have a democracy when quite a lot of your people are not educated and are illiterate? And I think
this is something that is the case in quite a lot of your countries. What do you think of that question by Mrs.
Al-Sheri?
Johnny Nogales: I think that everyone can do the democracy because democracy doesn't have to do with the
university degree you have. My country has a population that, and it's a shame, more than 50 percent of it hasn't
gone over the first full grades, I mean, it's almost just to learn how to read and how to write, and we are constructing
a very strong democracy. Why, because we have to talk to each other party and we have to make consensus about the
things that we are doing, and then, I think, democracy is about freedom. If you don't have freedom to choose what
party you're going to support, and if somebody will say like in the old times with the older regulation, which
is a sign of Estiticm, you have to vote for these three just, okay, that's not freedom from my point of view. The
people may be not too educated, but they are not stupid.
Margaret de Boer: Does that give an answer to your question?
Dr. Bilqis Al-Sheri: It's okay, but I think what I mean by educated people who are not just read and write,
I think the meaning of understanding, you know, when you explain something to them, they can understand really
what you mean by that. So I can't give them anything to choose this man or to vote for this man just by, you know,
chance this is not the real democracy that we need them to understand. Also, education is close to economic situation.
If you are even very good educated and your economic situation bad, so it doesn't mean anything for your democracy.
Johnny Nogales: Mrs. Chairman. I don't agree because I can't find in the history one people who was well
educated and is poor. I think if we have a review of the history, you won't find one single country say that is
well educated and poor, first. Second, you can trick the people, you can lie to them, but you won't lie indefinitely,
they will learn if you are lying to them. Then, I think, if you are the educated people in your country, you have
to be near to the people to tell the way they can understand what your proposal is. Then it's our responsibility
as leaders of our country, I'll say as people as have the opportunity to study and to grow up intellectually, others
doesn't have. Maybe it's our commitment with the our people not to cheat them, not to lie to them, because if do
so, be sure that the next time they won't support us.
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